sunnyshampz
Veteran Member
Posts:1087
 | | 28 Dec 2008 01:36 AM |
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| Dear NFX: This is one of your patrons [labt3k] speakin directly from my experience on warbeats.com I know you have noticed a major flaw in this system, due to the fact that people are allowed to post anon.
I have no doubt in my mind that you or whoever came up with this system had the best intent for this, BUT,
it is like a bad medicine. It does more harm than good:why? I explain: People do not care about what they rate someone with, they will almost always post anon, and this leads
to some people[most] leaving ishty two word comments, and giving you one stars just because they can.
Or because they don't like you. People will probably continue to do this even if you take away the anon
capability, but i have a solution. But before i explain that, you should realize that your wonderful website
is missing GREAT beats that should be put on the charts but isn't thx 2anons. So if you truly love
this community (I have no doubt that you do), please consider my solution. 1.) Take away anon. (people will be more thoughtful in their responses)
this also allows moderators to moderate the beat feedback system by knowing who posts crappy comments
in turn they can "punish" those people, give them a warning, then ban them from forum and or beat feedback system.
maybe something like no uploads for like 3 days.
2.) Make a secondary system to evaluate potential top chart hits. This secondary system will be based off the amount of points that the track currently has. Say if the track
is slammin, but is lowered due to assholes. If it is above a certain threshold, say 65, then it will go to a
"board" of reviewers picked by warbeats.com to sincerely and truthfully review the track. This will add
GREAT VALUE to the warbeats.com charts.
After this "board" reviews the track, they then come up with an ULTIMATE rating, and that rating will count
more than your average joe rating. You see where im going? It could be the final rating, or be worth triple
or quadruple the value. Kind of like a mid term test compared to a quiz. I will come up with the formula if you
desire.
Another thing to be fixed is the amount of ratings that some of these tracks receive. Why is it that every track
someone puts up only gets an average of 4 ratings then dies? I say increase the amount of tracks viewable on
the beat feedback system box to the right of the screen, and have the ones with less ratings at the top. And
when that track receives about 7-10 ratings, bump it down the list.
| | | -=Rate My Beat=-
-~ check out this new track, and drown out the useless raters ~- | |
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Sabotage
The Pimp Hand (moderator)
Veteran Member
Posts:1606
| | 28 Dec 2008 04:34 PM |
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| Ok, I'm in a bit of a hurry but I will try to quickly adress your worries here.
The feedback system is new and still evolving, all feedback is good and we actually do read all of it ;)
That said, please consider the following:
1.) Rest assured the anon only ablies to regular users. NFX can see exactly who said what and how they voted. In case of abuse the user will be dealt with accordingly. Secondly, you can now rate the feedback given to you. Rate the ones who rate you so to speak. If a person consistently gives bad feedback, his rate will go down.
2.) Please understand how many tracks there are beeing uploaded daily. That is the main reason why you won't receive so many votes on your tracks, they will be removed from the side panel after x amount of votes to make room for the next track in que. And as you stated many people are now rating just to get a upload credit. To get more & more accurate feedback you could for example post your track with the WB player in the beat show forums.
As for a trusted board of reviewers, who would those be and how would it work technically? With the amount of tracks beeing uploaded it would be a full time job to do it.. With members from all around the world, all of the board members could not be on at the same time to review and discuss tracks. There would have to be a system to give "the board members" some kind of super votes that over rule regular user votes. Who is to say no one would abuse it, or better yet... No one would start accusing anyone of doing so.
What I could see happening is, instead of having some super users rating tracks. We could look at linking the feedback rates to how much your votes count for. I.e. if you constantly give good feedback with good advice your ratings would count for more. If you on the other hand give crappy feedback, and the users start rating your feedback as bad. Your votes won't count for as much. ANd with the anon system in place the abuse of the system would be minimized due to the fact that you can't down or uprate a person when you do not know who it is. How would that sound? | | | |
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sunnyshampz
Veteran Member
Posts:1087
| | 28 Dec 2008 06:15 PM |
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| I think u got really good points here, and obviously there are too many upgrades for the super voters to vote for each one. I think you have figuered out a GREAT way to minimize the bad rating by bringing down the power of someone's vote if they have a bad rating for giving feedback themselves. i think that should be displayed under our names as some kind of "kudos" bar. the more you have, the more voting power you have. such as NFX would have a bigger bar than a regular user. That might better the feedback system overtime.
However to address the problems of the amount of votes you get on your tracks... isnt there anyway to fix that? I realize that so many tracks get uploaded daily... and maybe there might be a way to increase the votes hopefully... I think your right about the beat show room, but then again, we gotta tweak the system a lil bit to give incentive to people to rate well. I.E. the kudos bar. Ya kno what i mean?
My board idea was mainly for the use of the CHARTS tho however. Say a track is very popular, both in the beat feedback system, and in the forum... Say if it hits a certain amount of votes. Then this track will be "queued" for the board to review it. Ya kno what i mean? Then if there are plenty of board reviewers [maybe lets say 15-20] then there should be no problem with these potential tracks to get a "full and ultimate" review by some good reviewers. Not that i said "good reviewers" such as honest people like yourself and other mods, NFX, and basically the people on this site who have been here quiet a while and have some credit.
You cant say that wont make warbeats.com a bit more prestigious. What do you think? Please point on any errors. | | | -=Rate My Beat=-
-~ check out this new track, and drown out the useless raters ~- | |
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Administrator (NFX)
Da Boss
Veteran Member
Posts:1382
| | 30 Dec 2008 03:20 PM |
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| Thanks for all the thoughtful feedback.
The system will continue to evolve. As Sabotage said, the lower rated raters will have less influence on the rating and possibly even to the point of not allowing future ratings or uploads. Also the good raters will be rewarded by having more clout and possible things like free VIP. A very tricky situation for you labt3k because by nature of you having rated more votes than anybody (300 as of now) you also have the most negative feedback counts on those votes! Obviously there will be a way to determine the usefulness of the ratings along with the number of ratings. I havent worked all that out just yet.
Anon will stay as long as you can mark a rating "useless". I will eventually make the anon check box remember its setting for each user so those that do not want to post anon can do so easily. I have seen some users (silk in particular) go looking for a revenge vote. I think anon must stay for now.
Currently a track will not chart unless it has 5 votes or more. this can be changed easily.
The current average is 6 votes per track. The list on the sidebar always displays the ones with least votes by age (older first). The only way to get more votes per track is to limit uploads even more (one every X days), and/or require more ratings to earn an upload credit.
I have considered retiring tracks after 100 votes so that new tracks can be in the top - it seems like the chart makers get more attention and therefore more votes. The last time I looked Saha was at #1 and had over double the number of votes of #2. But then again, I could make a recent top 10 like for the week or the month and move the all-time top 10 to lower down the page.
There is a lot of data and a lot of ways to look at it so I am always appreciative of any ideas you guys throw out here. | | | Did you find something useful on Warbeats? If so, please consider donating to help keep this site alive. | |
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sunnyshampz
Veteran Member
Posts:1087
| | 30 Dec 2008 04:38 PM |
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| well admin i wouldnt mind if you go off your best judgement. But ask yourself if i am one of those ish-bags that is just out for revenge and doesnt rate, just expects good rates for himself. I wouldnt be typing all this and trying to improve something i love if i was like that. Give me a rater rating according to what you believe my intentions are. Im not gonna lie, ive given some bad feed in the beginning, but since i started makin more and more beats ive started to put my all into rating people. I try to listen extremely carefully and try to help the person as much as I can. Also keep in mind that alot of these beats arnt great all the time and i cannot help but to be truthful sometimes, and some people think the truth is an insult or diss when it is not. I try my best not to give opinions either. Im just trying to say that i put in alot of time on this website because its my favorite thing to do! Theres nothing better than making your own music and posting it for replies and ratings. | | | -=Rate My Beat=-
-~ check out this new track, and drown out the useless raters ~- | |
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sunnyshampz
Veteran Member
Posts:1087
| | 30 Dec 2008 04:40 PM |
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| and dont worry, i will always try and help you by giving very precise details. | | | -=Rate My Beat=-
-~ check out this new track, and drown out the useless raters ~- | |
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Administrator (NFX)
Da Boss
Veteran Member
Posts:1382
| | 02 Jan 2009 05:55 PM |
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| labt3k, I have looked at some of your feed and it's not bad, I'm just saying by the sheer number of votes, you have the most negative karma but you also have a lot of positive karma (useful votes). It' s just a numbers game.
Since I can't view all the feedback I need a way to make the judging of raters somewhat automatic. I think I have a system down that I'll try to get up on the charts very soon. This new rating would put you in the top 5 (or so - changes daily ) of good raters. | | | Did you find something useful on Warbeats? If so, please consider donating to help keep this site alive. | |
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sunnyshampz
Veteran Member
Posts:1087
| | 03 Jan 2009 11:03 PM |
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| ok admin i see where your coming from. I agree it would be impossible to view every feed, lol. I think i will wait and see how this works out and try to point out any more flaws if i see them. I think that this new system will work VERY well, especially with time. It will filter the bad raters to the bottom, so that their vote wouldnt matter as much since they give one stars or one/two word ratings anyway, then they will have to earn their voting power. I still believe that there can be some minor changes made, but since im not the one who has to do all the work, im not blaming you for not having things perfect, and it will probably never be. It is pretty good how it is, and its just those bad raters who make it a bad deal for everyone.
I was wondering if you could notify me in this thread when that system your talking about is up. Also could you explain to me how your formula is going to work for the "good raters". Such as how much precisely would your vote effect the track. for example if it has 4 votes and is currently at 60, and a "good rater" votes it at an average of 70, how much will that 60 change.
| | | -=Rate My Beat=-
-~ check out this new track, and drown out the useless raters ~- | |
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slliks867
Advanced Member
Posts:584
| | 05 Jan 2009 02:06 AM |
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| ahhh glad to see that the administration recognizes my actions. I'm a hot head so sue me but I know some of these cats beats are not as good and they diss so i check their beat and give it back but in detail no short stupid replies you can check em I only posted 4 beats yeah and i try to be helpful to those that are helpful to me. question tho if you on average only get 5 votes and don't get over 5 stars (because of H8) how can you average anything worth being charted the same names have been up there since this thing started another thing I think you should have a different voting system for SAMPLERS real hip hop because cats always saying this is not my type of music, not a fan of sampling out of the four beats i did put up 3 were sample type and bombed when i know they were decent better than some charted and when i did something different no understanding to me i mean cause this is the only site i real fork with far as showcasing and such everyone follows the same styles it is not too encouraging make me mad but i will get around it i just have to fire it up and i will stop the revenge rating it is hard tho really hard hopefully admin will recognize my works instead of my feeding habits anotha thing if a major was to come to this site to check some top joints all they would get is what is on the charts we need a spot where beats that are being h8ed on, that are worth listening to, can be posted like an honorable mention or something. Just my two cent though. holla @cha boy
Guess What I am Most Creative Late @ Nite/Early in the Morn!!! Lol | | | "Honor, and a Shhiitload of Principles."
-=Rate My Beat=- | |
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GP Studio
Veteran Member
Posts:2523
| | 05 Jan 2009 07:35 AM |
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| I like the idea of a genre selection, and voting clout is good, also removing or archiving beats with over 100 votes is good as well, should keep the charts fresh. | |  | |
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NFX
Veteran Member
Posts:2584
| | 06 Jan 2009 09:28 PM |
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| silks,
I'm not sure what actions you think the administration has recognized. If it's revenge voting, you yourself said thats what you would do. Other than that I don't know of any specific actions you've taken beyond complaining about people not feeling your beats (or hating as you would say).
You say that people h8 on sampled beats. Not true. The top beat (as I write this) is a sampled beat. As a matter of fact 4 of the top 10 are sampled.
You can revenge vote all you want but it will only hurt your voting power just like hate votes against you will hurt the voting power of others if it a common thing for them.
For example, say labt3k votes negatively on your beat and you mark it down as worthless, he loses a point, then you revenge vote and he marks it worthless. Now you lose a point. But labt3k is an honest rater and 2 others give him positive marks now hes back to +1 karma. mean while you made four more revenge votes - now youre down to -5. See it only hurts you to revenge vote. because after a certain amount of -rates your vote doen't even count against the other guys. AND you might lose upload priveledges completely. I say MIGHT because I havent figured out how it will all work in the end, but hopefully you understand the example.
Personally I don't recall any of your beats if I listened to them. Post a couple of track IDs so I can see if they are truly hating or if you are too sensitive over criticism. I'll even vote on a few myself.
GP, labt3k,
Genre selection might be a good idea, but I don't want to make it too specific. Maybe "Sampled" and "Composed". Otherwise you might get people voting negative because of silly things like a potential feedback like this:
[b] "this was a midwest style ridah beat NOT a west coast banger so I can't give it more than 4 stars"[/b]
you know what I mean? | | | If you find this site useful, please consider making a donation. | |
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sunnyshampz
Veteran Member
Posts:1087
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GP Studio
Veteran Member
Posts:2523
| | 07 Jan 2009 03:35 AM |
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| [b] "this was a midwest style ridah beat NOT a west coast banger so I can't give it more than 4 stars"[/b]
Yes i agree with that, ive seen it done in the beat show forums and even the battles, but i think a simple selection as you say, composed, sampled, remix would be good, not a big request on my part though. | | | |
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slliks867
Advanced Member
Posts:584
| | 07 Jan 2009 08:44 PM |
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| nfx if you really read my comments not once have i given WORTHLESS commentary to anyone whether they gave me a two word feed or whatever i always listen to their beat and give constructive crit i may be upset but i deal with it i don't go around giving out 1's and 2's I at the least rate strictly according to what specifies in the system mix master,instrument sound quality,arrangment and personal score i dont really upload prolly once i'm not tryin to be a problem here because i am on everyday to me its just the cats that post feed the have nothing that they created me and labt3k have good relations on here as well as the guy legacy with the hot sample and i even gave the guy tryder some pointers and feed on how he came off really dude i am not all that bad as you seem to make it that revenge shat happened even to skorch beats and he had negative short ish to say i listened to his beat rated and he still gave me USEFUL on the info i don't have problems with no one here just every once in a while but like i said if you only get a max of 5 votes on a beat why is there 10 stars your beat will never even come out to average here with the bullish votes of 1's and 2's by the way i have a couple of beats on page 2 or 3 of the beat showcase chek em let me know bout to post another in the feed thanks for reading | | | "Honor, and a Shhiitload of Principles."
-=Rate My Beat=- | |
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Administrator (NFX)
Da Boss
Veteran Member
Posts:1382
| | 08 Jan 2009 03:08 PM |
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| slliks67... I don't know how you vote. I was only trying to give an example of why revenge voting is not going to benefit anyone. You were the one that made it sound like you wanted to go off on people you believed to be hating on your beats. If you are giving good honest feed, then thats great because you are helping the system to be better.
My final point is that none of us like to hear our stuff is bad. Sometimes our beats are worse than we admit because it's "our baby" and almost no one will admit (or see) when their baby is ugly! Thats human nature to feel hurt when someone tells you something you don't want to hear. As feedback seekers we can do two things, either take the hit, make a note of it and move on OR dwell on it, get mad and let it burn energy that we could otherwise put to good use.
Whenever I get a bad comment I reflect on it and if it really stings me, I know it's probably because there is some truth to it. If it doesn't sting me, then I know that it's just an opinon that I can disregard because I know the writer is just not getting it. I didn't always feel this way, it took a lot of criticism to thicken my skin. I know I improved my game a lot because I was (and still am) willing to accept that people sometimes don't feel my beats and I listen to their reasons why. That info is INVALUABLE if you use and worthless if you dismiss it.
| | | Did you find something useful on Warbeats? If so, please consider donating to help keep this site alive. | |
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sunnyshampz
Veteran Member
Posts:1087
| | 08 Jan 2009 03:45 PM |
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| I think we all agree on "simple selection" or categories for our beats. I think it would be a good idea, but to keep it very general so that people wont vote it down because of the beat not specifically meeting the criteria.
Administrator gives excellent examples and explains himself very well. I was wanting to know if you have another alias by which you post your beats, and if you have some uploaded, could you post it so i may check them out? | | | -=Rate My Beat=-
-~ check out this new track, and drown out the useless raters ~- | |
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slliks867
Advanced Member
Posts:584
| | 08 Jan 2009 04:23 PM |
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| my fault admin, i got caught up with the word hate I don't necessarily think it is that they are hating its just that they are more or less being narrow minded with their votes or criticisms. I don't try to go off on people in that matter either it is just i try to show them this is how you criticize with explanation not two or three word statements, I would not call it revenge voting either maybe a planned lesson a sort of subliminal message if they get it good if they don't, well like you said it only hurts their voting in the future thanks again for reading | | | "Honor, and a Shhiitload of Principles."
-=Rate My Beat=- | |
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sunnyshampz
Veteran Member
Posts:1087
| | 08 Jan 2009 08:04 PM |
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| holy ish. i see icons of small pianos and turn tables by beats in the beat feedback browser. that is funking genius, admin, nice easy, simple, visually stimulating, quick, convinient, cool method of letting the rater know "this is a constructed beat" or "this is a sampled beat". is that your intent? whatever it is, it is innovative and almost perfect. good job. | | | -=Rate My Beat=-
-~ check out this new track, and drown out the useless raters ~- | |
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Administrator (NFX)
Da Boss
Veteran Member
Posts:1382
| | 09 Jan 2009 09:32 AM |
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| Admin = NFX
Some site maintenance can only be done by the admin account so I log in as admin about half the time.
As you noticed you can now categorize the beats when you upload. The older ones that don't have a defined category will be "unknown" 
UNKNOWN / previously uploaded before the feature
SAMPLED
COMPOSED
REMIX
The types have not made it into specific charts yet. I want to get in a way for people to go back and categorize their previously uploaded beats and then I'll work on the charts. | | | Did you find something useful on Warbeats? If so, please consider donating to help keep this site alive. | |
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GP Studio
Veteran Member
Posts:2523
| | 09 Jan 2009 09:37 AM |
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| Very nice addition! Big Props! | | | |
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