I hope this is the correct forum to post this subject. I wanted to talk about the new Music art form of "Twisting" which basically is taking samples, keyboards, drumz, and FX producing a unique sound that tells a "story" & seems unique to its original source of origin. I have discovered that while working diligently developing this new "genre'" (if you will) That the standard structure of Chorus, verse, Chorus Verse... yadda Yadda yadda got quite boring. I am trying to perfect a standard of making my music "Structure free" so I can put anything anywhere to tell a story and it still be in the groove and rhythmic.

I'm Trying hard to make music that captures the heart, mind, and soul. We have all heard songs about women, drugs, gangs, how hard a person is, and of course money... I would like to raise the conscious level of my listeners BUT this is sometimes hard to do with the content of samples used. I am currently trying to log samples from TV shows, movies (such as the Matrix etc), and of course CD's to bring a library of conscious sound bites to my Twists. I'm hoping that you can all follow what I'm saying here and honestly I would LOVE some help in that area. If there are any suggestions to how I can improve on this idea... or where I can get quality soundbites, or even how to make a free flowing unstructured compilation of samples to tell a story I would greatly appreciate that. I'm sure there are other "Twist" artists out there... I would LOVE to know who you are and collab with you!

Thanks for your time. And if this is the wrong area for this post... Please forgive me!
Dark Vader!

Is this a new thing in hip hop? Classical, rock and trance have all been doing this from the start, I just about always work structureless. If it is though it is a step forward for hip hop as it's a chance to break the mould. Has no one done a hiphop concept album?

I can't think of a new hip hop "style" when i read this.

Every hip hop artist is trying to achieve some kind of a "hook". In the chorus, verse, wheresoever.
It's about looping and finding a good hook.
That's hip hop 101.

But you can't create a hook line if your music doesn't have some kind of structure.

I beg to differ, just look at Floyd and all the other prog rock.

Has no one done a hiphop concept album?

Yes there are a few. "The Mistrel Show" by Little Brother, "Operation Doomsday" by MF Doom, "Criminal Minded" by KRS-One, just to name a few

Yeh well then this probably isn't a new idea in hiphop then.

Well, I attempted to do what I said in this track called "My Culture- The Epic" here on WB, But I don't think it's going over too well. What I meant by Structureless is There is not format for Intro, Chorus, Verse, Chorus etc etc... The track featured an intro and a MAIN PART (chorus if you will) but as far as verses, or whatever there were none. I attempted to use Breakdowns, sound FX, and even Malcom X/Martin Luther King speeches as Platforms for a story line... Like a sound movie.

The original Idea is one that I truly LOVE because it frees me up from having to focus on some methodology to please the masses; something familiar that sounds like a means to communicate through the RULES set by some secret society. I want my trax to be able to transcend all that mess. Being able to say what I want and sometimes that entails NOT being bound by a structure of rhyming, waiting for a verse to come etc etc. I'll post the track here.... take a listen (whether you vote or not is up to you)... Just see what I am trying to accomplish and if you have suggestions bring them because I am determined to open a new form of dialog thru Music! Music that is not bound to the same old structure and way of being approached. It may take a minute but it will be done... and it will be original!

Thanks guys!
-=Rate My Beat=-

^ Sounds like you just want to make musical scores..
It's all what you want in life with your music..

When you say "you don't want to hold on to the "verse, chorus" rules to please the masses" .. You can't make music for (hiphop/rnb) artists.. Cuzz this form of arrangement is needed to create a 'song'...

If you want to step out of the whole "arrangement" idea or not stickin' to *any* form of rules I will assure you at some point your music sounds like it's going nowhere...

You need some *form of arrangement* period.. No matter what typa music you're going for.. This is a lesson I had to learn wayy back.. I've also not always made hiphop/rnb music, and it was then when I had to learn this lesson.

Even musical scores have an arrangement, just because it's not the standard verse, chorus, verse chorus sequence doesn't mean it ain't there...

Like I said in the other thread.. Google some stuff about arrangement and really get into it.. and you'll see what I'm talkin' about..

^ maybe you're right about that then... I mean my trax will have a rhythm and 4/4 time right. there will be a standard but as far as being structured like regular tracks with the standard verse, chorus etc etc format i want to step away. i think you hit the nail on the head when you said MUSICAL SCORES... something to that affect BUT, a musical journey is more like it. i want the listener to visualize what I am saying or conveying with sound FX, lyrics, and music (samples, keys, sound fonts) to paint a picture in music. Maybe it will be a musical score/screen play sorta (if that makes sense)...

Say for instance in the Track "My Culture -The Epic" There is a crowd scene and Malcom says "Friends and Enemies" in relation to Hip Hop this should point to how volitle Hip Hop shows/rivelries HAVE been in the past... We are both Friends of Hip Hop but also our own worst enemy at the same time... then the police dispatch comes in... then Martin talks about how the Negro is not free... That IS my Hip Hop culture. Maybe I am not as good at it yet... and Maybe I don;t have the needd library of sounds (Eventually I will make my own up) BUT this is where I am going... a DRAMA in music!

Thanks for the help though! I do appreciate it!

^ What I advise to you is check out http://www.ocremix.org. They revise video game music..
But the judges over at that site have a certain standard for tracks before they put 'em up on the site.. and I criteria is your arrangement. They have all kinds of tracks there (even hiphop), but if you listen to a couple of tracks they do you'll see how far they take the definition of arrangements.. There are ALOT of godlike talented people overthere.. "Zircon" who made the demo of FL 9 and the girl that's singing over it (a.k.a. Pixietricks) are from that website..

Go check it out ..

Um can I just bring up bohemian raphsody here. I know it's not hiphop but it is one of the most successful song there has been and yet it has no chorus nor verse, not even a recuring theme. Its time signature changes, it has syncopation and variable phrase lengths. It itself stands as proof that the verse chorus system is not neccisary

^ But they still needed arrangement ...

See: Dilla - Donuts

I see your points here. Fisha your mention of BR by queen was goregous!!! Now that was a trip wasn't it?! I suppose "My Culture-The Epic" is somewhat of a hip hop BR track now that You mention that and in fact... you have just givemn me a QUEEN of an idea. If I could gather sound bites from different pivital hip hop moments, (music, interviews, news) and place them in a track chronologically.... wow, that would be an EPIC wouldn't it? YEAH!! See... It like that one commercial from the 90's where the guys were hanging out male bonding and that one dude would bust out with...

"I love you mannnnn!!"

Yeah... something like that ish!

Posted By TooIntegrated on 28 Sep 2009 12:52 AM
^ But they still needed arrangement ...

Yeh but arrangment is music, otherwise it's just sounds I don't think anyones ever tried to create a song without arrangement, even if it is subconciously

Maybe I'm using the wrong termonology... by arrangement I mean the standard: Intro, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus... yadda yadda yadda... maybe that's format instead of arrangement? Either way... I don;t wat the standard "Format/arrangement" to bind me anymore. I want to be free to have parts, breaks, dramas, common parts like chorus', narratives etc without it being expected and standard. I will do that with this EPIC twist. Watch... this might take me a moment simply because I must gather all the sound bites together... then put the baclground "track" to them (I guess that's a form of arrangement). But can't you here the day 2Pac got shot from MTV news... then 2pac's Interview claiming Biggie did it... Biggie's track "Who shot ya" coming in... LL's Going back to Cali, then Biggies... "Going back to cali Intro.. "*Puffy*-" Leaving for LAX".. *Big* "Whoa... Cali?" *Puffy* "Yep, we gotta get this paper"... Then a gun shot! News... Biggie smalls shot dead.... Music track bang'n!!! It's a Hip Hop Epic... A drama set to music!

I'm working on a sex drama right n ow. This is the first draft and although I don;t like it... women ARE GOING crazy OVER THIS TRACK ALREADY AND ITS ONLY IN THE ROUGH STAGES.This ome chick who I haven't even met swears she walks around listening to this track all damn day long... she says its love making music (Nasty FREAK!!!)... Peepe the beginning stages of a sex drama.... "Tales of Orgasmic Pleasure"

-=Rate My Beat=-

Hey I just had a listen to this song you are talking about and saw what people have commented; Do not listen to them! There is definately something with that song that could really work, just keep refining it mate.

^ WOW!!! See, that's what I'm talking about! Thank you!!! thank you soooooo Much man! YOU GET IT!!! YOU REALLY GET IT! That makes me so happy beause I truly feel inside that its going to be something new and exciting IF people would give it a chance and IF (Big if) I can perfect the style. I could really use some suggestions, I mean I have some Ideas that I am anxious to try... Like I was talking about earlier.. a musical DRAMA with a track that's SLAMM'n with REAL TALK... REAL news, real knowledge, real situations, sound bites that people recognize. Man.... Thanks Fisha! Thank you for your encouragement man!!! You have no idea how much that helped me!

Dark Vader!

Now I'm not saying it's going to be an instant hit, it may never quite work, but it's definately worth the effort to keep going.

^ Oh, but if done properly it will be> I have to take my time with it and not rush it! I mean can you imagine... many of the big news stories in Hip Hop or the world for that matter in a Mash Up type jam? With these killer breaks, drama's interviews... all behind slamm'n beats... that change depending on the mood of the drama? OOOOOOH WEEEEE! Yowza!!!