The conflict always has been , and always will be . I created this thread to share my opinions with you and get some of your opinions . Now  :

Mainstream is bigger than underground . It's everywhere , on the radio , tv , bar , clubs and discos. Beat is always primar as we talk for the manistream and then the vocal of the artist . None gives a Goddamn funk bout lyrics , 50 % of them talk bout sex and cars and how much the artist is and 50 % left talks bout love and girls.
People enjoy those songs everything becouse the human ear loves more the music than the vocal...and the beats fits perfectly those easy-made vocals . So they sell millions of records and become richer than they were ...

Underground is somehow under the ground of music . Underground artists doesn't really give a funk bout what the public wants . They are based on their liking and drop science on the beat . For an underground rapper lyrics are primar. The write complicated rhymes and most of them have dope flow. The beats are great ( for my opinion )  but it seems that not a lot of people think like i do ,  so underground artists don't get so much money . Ignorant people don't wanna learn ...Someone asked : Who's worse ignorance or apathy ? And someone answered  : I don't know and i don't care...Haha ..this is how it goes with the underground . Most of the people don't know what it is and they don't try to find out . They think it's just a motherfunker who talks bullish....

As we talk for rappers  I'm deeply for the UNDERGROUND ... At least  you learn something... But don't get it confused  , I don't hate commercial music ... You can't listen to an underground rapper in a disco or dance wit some chick. Accept it. No matter how much i love immortal technique , lil wayne will be enjoyed more in a club. You can't hate on that . Hate is ignorance ...

As we talk for Producers I think that a producer should delete from his memory this two concepts and do whatever he wants. Make a club track if you want to get some money ( and we all wanna get money )  Then you can make underground beats as much as you want. ?

What do you people think ? I think that Mainstream and Underground complete each other ..

Im with you i think. I'd rather sit and listen to underground anyday of the week. But on the weekend your right, its pretty impossible to dance an underground track lol. You need something simple that you can move to...I think thats the only time i accept commercial mainstream stuff, when im out with friends. But anywhere else, underground allll day

Yeap man ..That's right

*REAL TALK* good sirs.

underground wins...no matter what.

It's just the real hip hop...or do you consider fat ass Rick Ross rappin about his 20 maybachs hip hop?

^ * sigh * so narrowminded -.-' Think before making such a statement..

yea, technically it is hip-hop....thats a fact lol. can't deny it (as much as some would like to )

still...underground FTW!! haha

The worst thing that my imagination can touch is smth like Vinnie Paz (from Jedi Mind Tricks ) Vs. Gucci Mane...This is bullish ...Jedi makes art

LOL I HATE TOPICS LIKE THIS.. CaesaR you have a good point i see where your coming from.. AK beatz lol.. I use to listen to underground heaps i got mad respect for it i dont believe in all that bullish (underground, commercial, whatever).. music is music, hip hop is hip hop no matter commercial or underground.. real hip hop heads listen to it as a whole

as much as usually prefer conscious lyrics over mainstream stuff, what people forget is that hip-hop came from dj's throwing parties. it was just about fun, and dancing. as lyrics became more important over the years, the "conscious mc" gained more promininence, but that's not how hip-hop started. So the party hip-hop records are not necessarily "fake" hip-hop. They doing what DJ Kool Herc was doing, or even what De La Soul were doing in 3 Feet High and Rising. Just putting out fun music. That said, I do take artistic integrity seriously, and I have no respect for someone who makes "party music" just BECAUSE it will sell. It needs to be from the soul. De La Soul were naturals, as was Kool Herc and Afrika Bambaata. So for me you can be mainstream and have artistic integrity. That's what matters

mmmm...I think you missunderstood something man . Well now Afrika Bambatta was one of the first i think. It all started for fun and dancing and parties and it was just a beat wit Dj shoutouts . Another aim was reducing the violence in the streets but in that time words like : gangsta , pimp , hustler were not used by Dj's for braging . They were considered part of bad society. Now most of the mainstream bullish says : I'm pim and , rich you bitch ? right ?

yeah, but not everyone who's mainstream is into rapping about pimping and bitches. Kanye West is the perfect example. I'm not his biggest fan, but his first two albums deal with honest topics. Plus, a lot of underground cats are still promoting that "I'll funk you up" type of rap. Take Ras Kass, or Chinio XL for example. I love Ras Kass, he has a mad flow, but he's not exacly a "role model"

Mainstream and Underground makes no diffrence.the only thing about mainstream is that u have to come up with whack lyrics to promote.vinne pazz , ill bill , i bet if those cats come up to the mainstream they have to have those kinda stuff to be able to promote their music.take eminem for instance , he has songs that are real , but then again some of his other songs are commercial.underground means ure not out there.not on the radio's.i have bands and artists that im working with that has songs that are commercial.so it doesnt matter if ure mainstream or ure underground.its the same ish.the diff is jst either ur out or u aint.

Here we go again :p

To me "underground" is where it is at, I was bottle fed on that music and I it's in my veins, so to speak. There is no denying about the party music vibe beeing a important part of hip hop's roots. But what you hear on the radio today has nothing to do with that. First of I will lent some words from KRS One's verse on the song Classic:

How many y’all got criminal minded you you you y’all don’t be blinded
Me I got no jewels on my neck, why – I don’t need ‘em I got your respect
KRS 1 20 years I rock I do it for JMJ and Scott LaRock – this hip hop
And we’s a nation, don’t you want to hear more KRS on your radio station?
Instead of broadcasting how we smokin’ trees, on the radio we need to hear more local MC’s
Where you at? Come on where you at? This is the difference between MC’ing and rap
Rappers spit rhymes that are mostly illegal, MC’s spit rhymes to uplift they people
Peace, love, unity, and Havin’ fun, these are the lyrics of KRS One

Now that pretty much sums it up. The party vibe thing was just that, having fun and partying, not dealing dope and blasting guns.

As we dwell deeper into this subject I feel compelled to also educate people on some things about "dance" music. Did you ever wonder why it's almost always over 120BPM? Yes there is a reason for that, I suggest you look into it and learn something new today. And that is exactly what is on the radio today, it is dance music, it is made to shake your booty to in the club. And the "mainstream" hip hop of today is starting to sound more and more like the regular club pop out there. Go to youtube and spend a half an hour watching vids on 90's euro dance tunes, then look up todays hottest club tracks... oooOO, no? nunanunaneee...

So to sum up my ramblings, the issue most of us have with this is the fact it doesn't sound like hip hop anymore. You could take out Lil' Jon and put Britney on the track and it would be the same. And that's fine, it is made to sell and to be danced to, but for us who are a tad older it feels like a robbery. Hip Hop started getting interesting and sold more and more, but it didn't sell enough so they changed it untill most anyone would accept it. Basicly they are selling a lollipop in a cigar wrapping (and by they I'm not referring to anyone in particular.) Today nobody even blinks an eye when a hip hop track comes on at a club. Rewind 10-15 years and the dancefloor would have been empty. Dance tracks are fine, and you can't really compare it with the boom bap, apples and oranges.

Underground hip hop is made to be enjoyed, like a fine wine. It has subtle flavors that would be lost in a club atmosphere and frankly it does not belong in there either. C'mon, not many of you will go out and dance in jazz club either you go there to enjoy the music. Dance tracks are about getting your heart rate up and you moving, Underground hip hop is about expresion and skill.

Respect , respect , respect for Sabotage

Dj Premier says it the best

check it out
http://www.5starhiphop.com/2009/08/dj-premier-interview-at-slaughterhouse-show-video/

i'm gonna kill this entire thread with the following:

''Personal Preference.''


Some like underground, some like mainstream.

ow man SPE! please change your avatar...I always think you are 2nd Man!

SPE, personal preferences are fine... some people like soft rock, but they would be damned to call it bluegrass, right? And that is the whole point of it.

Nobody is disputing anyones personal tastes, people are ofcourse free to like what ever they think is nice. But just because I might like the idea of a cowboy image I won't go around calling country hip hop... Which is what many feel is happening. The commercial stuff on the radio has moved so far from where it came from that it is starting to resample other genres more than it does hip hop. Which again is fine, but when does it seize being hip hop and start being pop? or is it hip hop as long as flavor of the month is standing there rocking a gold chain and talking about bitches and how much money he is getting of you?

I knew I don't need to reply on this thread coz Sab will kill it.